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New engine needed - JDM?

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    • Oct 13, 2017 1:33:39 pm
    Hello all,

    In a nutshell, our manual transmission 2007 tC's engine died due to oil starvation, and we need a new engine. Some questions up front:

    1. What do you think of JDM engines as an option?
    2. In particular, would this particular engine be the proper fitment?
    05-10 SCION TC 2.4L JDM 2AZ-FE 2AZ


    3. Do you have any experience or knowledge about this vendor (JDM Engine Depot)?

    ----------

    Background (feel free to ignore):
    As most of you were already aware, some of the tC and other Toyota 4 cyclinder engines have issues with oil consumption as they age, so much so that there was a class action lawsuit and an extended warrantee granted for these engines, to the tune of 10 years or 150,000 miles.

    Our car, which my daughter loves dearly, and I'm fairly fond of as well (it has TRD suspension components) was purchased 2 years ago with 70K miles. It now has 90,000. No one ever mentioned the issue with the oil consumption - not the prior owner, nor Toyota. The car has always been maintained on Mobile 1, with 5000 mile drain intervals. On the somewhat rare occasions that I've checked the oil in between bringing it in for service, I have not found it to be much low.

    This time around though, with 4000 miles since the last oil change, the car stalled while I was driving and put my foot on the clutch. I let the clutch out, and it restarted. No strange dash warning lights. It did this once again a mile later, and restarted, and I decided to go straight to the mechanic (5 more minutes). However, I didn't make it that far before it stalled and wouldn't start. Towed to our mechanic who diagnosed it as seized, no engine oil. Sigh.

    The car is 11 years old at what we thought was a fresh 90K miles (it's a Toyota after all), and Toyota corporate won't do a darn thing for us. We are very, very disappointed in Toyota. We did manage to get a local Toyota dealer to give us break on labor for an engine replacement ($1500), as we'll be in the market for a $40K SUV next year, and right now the Highlander would still be in contention, but my wife doesn't want to touch another Toyota if they do nothing.

    We've examined a number of options including used from salvage yard, rebuilt (Jasper, Jarco), and are looking for something simple/direct replacement. A JDM engine seems like the cheapest and least mileage option.

    -----------

    So any advice on replacement engines or other options? (Please see specific questions above)
    Any advice for getting Toyota to do more for us?
    Any other advice?

    Thanks,

    Dan
    • Oct 13, 2017 1:45:55 pm
    lol.. actually all Scion tC's are JDM (Japan Domestic Market), since they were only made in Japan and shipped to the US, the 1st gen tC's 05-10.

    and don't bother with Mobil 1 again. It is well-known that this oil "disappears" quickly in the tC's 2az-fe engine. That's one of the issues that doesn't help that Toyota used lower-tension piston rings, but add in the fact that Mobil 1 is consumed even if there isn't a piston ring problem, and you have a recipe for bad things, as you've seen.

    I would suggest anything other than Mobil 1. You can search the forums here and see that it's been a problem for a long, long time. I always tell people when they first see the oil disappearing on the dipstick to switch from Mobil 1 to something else. and that usually stops the consumption.

    But that's only for you when you replace the engine. For now, the damage is done. I would only buy a new engine if it's had the new pistons + rings replaced with the newer parts from Toyota. Otherwise you're just going back to the same issue.

    05-06 is different than the 07-10 engines. You could get a 10 engine, they would've fixed the piston ring problem by then but still should have the engine rebuilt (rings/pistons)

    About Toyota doing anything now, you'd need to get an attorney, since the "goodwill" program is over for that engine.

    What will the dealer do for you? Is it $1500 for Labor or engine included in that?
    • Oct 15, 2017 6:06:36 pm
    Thanks for the info. The $1500 is for labor only. An 06-10 JDM engine with approx 50K miles is $1100 at the link I provided.
    • Oct 15, 2017 6:27:16 pm
    hey dan.. you're welcome for the info..

    I did forget to click on that link! I see it now. And the problem is, if it's all stock then what's the guarantee that the oil consumption won't happen again?! There is none! So you spend all this $$$ for what? The only way to fix it, is to rebuild the pistons and rings with the new, updated parts from Toyota. That's really it. So you get an engine that's in good shape, and rebuild those parts. Then you'll have an engine that will go the distance.

    The picture you're showing is the later 07+ engine, since the heat shield for the catalytic didn't look like that for 05-06, which was before the piston ring change.

    But that's my thought that the best way to fix things and not waste money ending up in the same place you already have been!
    • Oct 23, 2017 1:58:58 pm
    So if I can ensure an 08 or later engine, it should have the better internals? Or is there an 07 version that is ok?

    Thanks!
    • Oct 25, 2017 5:14:14 pm
    Dan__ wrote:
    So if I can ensure an 08 or later engine, it should have the better internals? Or is there an 07 version that is ok?

    Thanks!


    hey dan! That's the problem all the 07-10's (tC 1st generation) are affected by the change. The 05-06 isn't since it is a different version (Revision) than the 07's and later. Now if you want stats, most of the problems seem to be 07-09. But that's no guarantee that you'll get a good engine. the fact is, all of them can develop the oil consumption problem, even if it's not showing now. The only true fix is to have the new rings installed. Then you'd know 100% it's fixed.

    To everyone else that has the 07-10 production, I'm not saying you'll have consumption, some get lucky. But for Dan, I'm saying it's best to fix it then no wondering/worrying if it would develop oil consumption.

    May be harsh, but it's the truth.. rather be honest with ya, than have you think you're good to go.
    • Oct 27, 2017 2:07:40 pm
    Oh, I misunderstood with some wishful thinking. All 07-10s are bad unless they've been retrofitted with new rings. (New pistons too? Or just rings?)

    I think I read elsewhere that '10s were unaffected, but I guess that's not true either.

    So best bet is to find an engine with that's been upgraded, or have a ring job done. Do you happen to know if that's something I could trust to a dealer after getting one of the JDM engines, or would I be better served by an alternate place that rebuilds engines.
    • Oct 27, 2017 7:27:52 pm
    Dan__ wrote:
    Oh, I misunderstood with some wishful thinking. All 07-10s are bad unless they've been retrofitted with new rings. (New pistons too? Or just rings?)

    I think I read elsewhere that '10s were unaffected, but I guess that's not true either.

    So best bet is to find an engine with that's been upgraded, or have a ring job done. Do you happen to know if that's something I could trust to a dealer after getting one of the JDM engines, or would I be better served by an alternate place that rebuilds engines.


    you know, you might be right about the 10's, they could've caught it by then. I'll gave to re-read the service bulletin to see when the VIN change was. Definitely find one that has had the ring job done. Sorry that I made a broad claim for 07-10. Just wanted you to be 100% sure you wouldn't have the oil consumption issue ever again. so no it could be true I have to re-read the service bulletin.

    You could have bad assemblers in both the dealer and the places that rebuild engines. I think though that the rebuild places would probably give you a longer warranty. Not trying to be super picky here but just want you to get it right the first time and be done with this mess. Toyota should have NEVER tried this, so dumb.
    • Oct 30, 2017 6:14:48 am
    Thank you again for your help with this. We'll get this thing back on the road - hopefully for the long term.
    • Nov 01, 2017 4:21:10 pm
    Dan__ wrote:
    Thank you again for your help with this. We'll get this thing back on the road - hopefully for the long term.


    hey dan! You're most welcome! Just want you to get it right the first time and then you can just enjoy the tC for many, many miles without these issues.. Other than regular maintenance. keep us posted how it goes.
    • Nov 01, 2017 11:34:04 pm
    sciontc_mich wrote:
    Dan__ wrote:
    Thank you again for your help with this. We'll get this thing back on the road - hopefully for the long term.


    hey dan! You're most welcome! Just want you to get it right the first time and then you can just enjoy the tC for many, many miles without these issues.. Other than regular maintenance. keep us posted how it goes.


    Yes keep us posted. This is a lot of great info for the next person.
    • Nov 06, 2017 6:43:35 pm
    UPDATE:
    I did look up online for the info and found it at this link
    http://media.fixed-ops.com/Toy_Campaigns/ze7-dlrltr.pdf

    It looks like the production run (using the lower tension rings, etc) was from late february 2006 until late july 2008. For model years 2007-2009. The new model year was usually introduced around june of that year, instead of when regular models (for the next year) are introduced in september.

    That info is in the pdf file, link above. So anything outside of that range does have the new rings already installed.
    • Nov 08, 2017 2:17:24 pm
    • Edited 1 times, last by Dan__ on Nov 08, 2017 2:33:44pm.
    Awesome. Thanks so much for the followup. We'll try to get a 2010 engine.

    -Dan
    • Nov 09, 2017 1:43:36 pm
    Ok, (yet) another question. I spoke to the guy who has several 2AZ-FE JDMs, but there is no VIN on them. Is there a way (preferably external) to identify a 2010 engine?
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