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Home > Visual / Audio Mods > Mobile Electronics > STOCK HEAD UNIT W/ SYSTEM

STOCK HEAD UNIT W/ SYSTEM

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blackscionTC
  • Detailer
 Im about to purchase a system 2 12's and i want to save up for a good head unit but i dont have enought for it yet cuz i need to save up but i was wondering if i was able to use the stock head unit for a while until i have the money for my new headunit. can there be n e problems and or disadvantages do i need to up grade some wireing? and wat kind of cables do i need to buy to connect it to the front to rear.

[#] Sep 13, 2005 06:45pm
TRD_tC
  • Scion Guru
 DISADVANTAGE: If you are pushing more than 200w to your subs... your subs will OVERPOWER your highs/mids. You wont even hear it. Plus you wont be able to have control of your subwoofer through presests on most aftermarket HU. YOU WILL need an hi-fi inline converter and splice it into the rear speakers...so if u adjust ur rear speakers u adjust your subs.

ADVANTAGE: its cheap.

[#] Sep 13, 2005 10:06pm
terra_tC
  • Detailer
 I was going to do this as well with my infinity sub. I keep going back and forth trying to decide if i want to do it(due to rattle issues. I already bought the AudioLink Powerlink II converter but thats easily returnable. As for now im still on the fence

[#] Sep 17, 2005 08:14pm
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 From a retail standpoint. that's where they'll push you with a trunk to front type strategy, seeing how new cars are more expensive or "extensive" to replace factory head units. So they recommend a sub and amp first. Then you will gradually build new speakers, then a deck.
so, as my recommendation. i've always been taught to buy a good head unit first. then build from there. But either way it works fine. as long as you do realize it's a continual project.
Make sure your line out converter is installed behind your radio. this will save you time later as you plan to add an aftermarket and the rca's will be right there after the change.
expect to change your factory speakers soon after the deck. You'll notice the poor sound quality and want to invest in a decent component set.
good luck on whatever you do though.

[#] Sep 18, 2005 10:32am
TCFuzion
  • Master Mechanic
blackscionTC wrote:
Im about to purchase a system 2 12's and i want to save up for a good head unit but i dont have enought for it yet cuz i need to save up but i was wondering if i was able to use the stock head unit for a while until i have the money for my new headunit. can there be n e problems and or disadvantages do i need to up grade some wireing? and wat kind of cables do i need to buy to connect it to the front to rear.


What up. First of all, if u want to save $$$, I recommend going with 2 10's. In the tc, 10s play plenty loud, don't need as much room, and are cheaper than 12's. I have two audiobahn sound q alum cone subs in a sealed box and the play loud, tight and clear. I only have the amp's gain at 1/4 and any louder sometimes I think I'd be hurting my ears.

Regarding the HU, I still have the stock HU and I love my system. The stock unit is actually pretty nice (duh its a pioneer) and the stock system in general sounds pretty good-just lacks those low frequency rumbles. All u need to hook up and amp to the stock HU is a line output converter. Granted the signal will not be as clean as that of an aftermarket HU, but you probably won't be able to hear the difference in the sound, especially since its bass.

I've been toying with the idea of upgrading the HU, but every time I listen to my system , I love it so much, I'm almost afraid to change anything. My recommendation, if u have an extra 300 bills laying around and are a real audiophile, get a new HU. Otherwise spend your money on some nice subs an amp and a line out converter, and you'll have a great sounding system.

[#] Sep 18, 2005 07:43pm
pillage
  • Tire Changer
Bazzgazm wrote:
From a retail standpoint. that's where they'll push you with a trunk to front type strategy, seeing how new cars are more expensive or "extensive" to replace factory head units. So they recommend a sub and amp first. Then you will gradually build new speakers, then a deck.
so, as my recommendation. i've always been taught to buy a good head unit first. then build from there. But either way it works fine. as long as you do realize it's a continual project.
Make sure your line out converter is installed behind your radio. this will save you time later as you plan to add an aftermarket and the rca's will be right there after the change.
expect to change your factory speakers soon after the deck. You'll notice the poor sound quality and want to invest in a decent component set.
good luck on whatever you do though.



I think someone works for Best Buy ha ha ha.....Personally I think you should get the desk 1st. Using line-out converter reduces sound quality and i think if u had a chance to hear it u would regret it. But thats my 2 cents......good luck on finding out what works for u...

[#] Sep 19, 2005 03:14pm
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 HEh, read that one a mile away huh? even i don't agree totally with it. But when you start seeing a 20 year old guy who's driving a vw taureg. or some other pain in the rear end car to deal with you start thinking "These R&D guys might have an idea" but as with 99% of the people in this world. they are going to benefit more with a good head unit as their first step

[#] Sep 20, 2005 11:06am
TCFuzion
  • Master Mechanic
 who works for best buy. Not me if thats what you were talking about. the best buys near me don't even carry audiobahn gear, only circuit city, and limited options at that. I got all my stuff at dealer cost.

You don't NEED an aftermarket headunit to have a nice system. If u have the money for a nice one, then by all means, go for it.

[#] Sep 23, 2005 07:29pm
tikbhoy
  • Vehicle Designer
 another option

ebay item number: 8002375190
[#] Sep 24, 2005 04:45am
XpressAudio
  • Window Washer
 yea i saw that bestbuy comment a mile away as well.. and yea i work there and i have been installing for over 2 years now. deck always should come first, no matter what. unless its a mercedes then go to hell hehe.
and bestbuy doesnt carry audiobahn cause they absolutely suck.. nobody should ever waste their money on audiobahn anything.. i feel bad for those who do

[#] Sep 24, 2005 11:17pm
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 Best Buy doesn't carry audiopawn, not really because they suck. but because they can't keep up with production. the only reason alpine is here now is because alpine built 2 new plants to keep up with the needs @ best buy

[#] Sep 25, 2005 09:11am
TCFuzion
  • Master Mechanic
XpressAudio wrote:
yea i saw that bestbuy comment a mile away as well.. and yea i work there and i have been installing for over 2 years now. deck always should come first, no matter what. unless its a mercedes then go to hell hehe.
and bestbuy doesnt carry audiobahn cause they absolutely suck.. nobody should ever waste their money on audiobahn anything.. i feel bad for those who do


I feel bad for those who work at Best Buy, and even worse for those who get advice from people like you, who obviously have no idea what they're talking about. AT this point in time, audiobahn has probably the most complete and one of the top lines of subwoofers around. A few years ago, their stuff wan't quite up to par, but take a look and listen to the Sound Q aluminum cone woofers or the pro compression subs and tell me they're not sick speakers. I wouldn't buy an audiobahn HU but their amps and subs are awesome. You're retarded. I have the stock HU in my tc, and I guarantee my two 10" audiobahn subs play louder and cleaner than any single 12, with the exception maybe of a JL. If you've been working at best buy for over two years, I'd say go get an education and get a real job.

[#] Sep 25, 2005 09:34pm
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 Wow =) and.. of the 80 or so master certified installers.. best buy has 12 of them... And honestly... your little "audiobahn" woofers are never going to be as nice as a velodyne servo controled woofer, or for that matter. an image dynamic Q series woofer.. their cheap 100 dollar woofer.. high performance, low price.... Anyways.. off of that subject with the bashing.. Stock head units biggest limitation is the fact that line output converters only give you a .5-.7volt output. which is not going to do anything but cause your gain to be cranked up on your amp to match.. If you DO insist on using that stock "pioneer marked" unit. then invest in an audiocontrol four.1, or any other crossover/pre-amp with high level input and a good solid 4-8v balanced output.
and JL is far from what they were years ago. You can bash best buy all you want. But they are the market leaders in mobile audio. And the only one still growing.... Other than that.. it's a stable job with VERY strong pay and benefits.
now, every company has it's downfall. which honestly., i feel is the "Generalization" of hte customers. the fact that they will push the trunk to front strategy to everyone when i've always prefered a good head unit first. So before you and your ****Circuit city**** loving friends go and bash installers.... you should try doing it yourself for a change.

[#] Sep 26, 2005 01:11am
Xero187
New York, US
  • Detailer

Several Bones to pick:

1) TRD_tc says "If you are pushing more than 200w to your subs... your subs will OVERPOWER your highs/mids. You wont even hear it. "
What are you an 80 year old woman who has the lincoln turned down to lowest setting on her 1978 lincoln continental?
Thats a bullshit comment
I have 2 infinity 12" perfects, being fed a healthy 800watts RMS, and it sounds great! Sure I could use to replace the interior speakers eventually?
But.... Do you really want your highs soo loud that your ears distort as if you're in a club that has the treble set way too high?

2) Bazzgazm & pillage "Get a HU first"
Uh.... Dont you already have a HU, why would you blow your money on a HU and have to wait on getting some bass? Then you'll be riding around with
a completely unbalanced sound? Top/Treble heavy... Oh but yeah, you'll have a pretty new shiney color or whatever deck with a million pretty much useless features
Our HU can play files in Mp3 format? What else could you want besides perhaps a dvd/Tv player/screen?
Most Important thing in stereo building...... BASS FIRST!

3) TCFuzion "Buy 10's to save money"
Screw that, stick some 12's up in that bitch. I'd recommend the Infinity perfect series. They very effeciently use of 300-400watts a peice. The 10's cost about $110/pc on ebay &
the 12's cost about $120/pc so you do the math. I've had these two 12's since early 1999 and I'm amazed at their durability, I pump the shit out of them and they keep on going.

4) BestBuy people Watch Out!
Sorry if I offend, but maybe I'm not... I installed my first system back in 1998. No help from anyone else. I researched how to wire 12volt stuff & speakers, Ohms law all that
crap and put it to use. With over a dozen install for myself, friends, and family I've never had a system fail. Developing your own system for personal use is not rocket science,
unless perhaps it's for competition and money is no object.

5) BestBuy People Most really don't know shit!
Bestbuy does not carry anything I'd want to put in my vehicle except for maybe a couple of HU's that are pretty cool. The shit they carry may seem like great name brands, but
every brand seems to have its lower models (which are the only models stores like Bestbuy carry) which suck, and to the untrained I can look like the better models so respected.
All that shit is over priced! The only good deals they have in that dept are for employees which get a good discount. Even so, you're getting discounted crap! You get what you
pay for, & a good deal of the time its disappointing how much you paid for low end crap! By then its too late!

6) XpressAudio "Audiobahn sucks" WTF??? Who is this audio noob???
Audiobahn is a rapidly growing now fully respectable producer of mainly car audio/video products. They offer amazing performance for what I consider to be more then reasonable
prices. Having done several installs with audiobahn subs, I can say they are some of the finest finished and most hard hitting clear choice performers on the market looking to
bring products to the market no one has yet seen before; like their ridiculous 34" thats right nearly 3 foot 6000RMS subwoofer!

Anyhow, buy some subs. I'd recommend the infinity line unless longevity is not an issue. The 12.1 perfects are 4 ohm single voice coil, 350RMS 1400peak with a range of 18Hz to
200Hz with a db rating of 96. the higher the db rating the more effect the sub is in turning watts into sound so they are very efficient. Get yourself a 600 to 800watt amp RMS
not peak. RMS = Continuous You could get a dual 12 enclosure with as little space as .7 cubic feet for each sub. These infinities are designed for small enclosures. I have two .9cu
ft enclosures because they came with them when i ordered them when they first came out through crutchfield for the going price of the time of $300/pc.

The audiolink preamp coverter works great. Just pull out the stock HU and find the rear speakers and you can tap off of them & use your audiolink to cut the single down and convert it into RCA.

Remember unless you're going to replace the alternator you dont want too powerful a set up wattage wise because it will tax the hell out of your electical system & cause your throttle
and engine to act funny b/c everything is electronically controlled and works best with a stable voltage. I have a capacitor too in my set up which helps out a whole lot. You could
pick up one of those for like $90. The amp you should be able to find one for $150 or so.

Well shit, I kinda of hopped around a bunch writing this, and I dont feel like proof reading it. Some good points have been made in this post, but rather than pat anyone on the back
I just wanted to set the record straight for the ignorant/stupid things said and what not.

No hard feelings!

www.cardomain.com/id/xero187 Check out my set up, any questions sign my guestbook & i'll get at you!

[#] Sep 26, 2005 01:11am
bzboardz
  • Tire Changer
 i have a 10w6v2 and its turned all the way down cuz if i try and turn it up i only get a handfull of bass in my ear, even with this thing turned down it fills the car wiht soooo much bass, it sounds pretty nice right now but its not putting out anywhere close to what it can, to me it does not matter where you start with your system as long as you know that its almost never finished, as far as a 10 or 12 it all matters on what type of music u listen to, a 10 will have a faster response time and a 12 will hit harder

[#] Sep 26, 2005 02:39am
bzboardz
  • Tire Changer
 i have a 10w6v2 and its turned all the way down cuz if i try and turn it up i only get a handful of bass in my ear, even with this thing turned down it fills the car with soooo much bass, it sounds pretty nice right now but its not putting out anywhere close to what it can, to me it does not matter where you start with your system as long as you know that its almost never finished, as far as a 10 or 12 it all matters on what type of music u listen to, a 10 will have a faster response time and a 12 will hit harder

[#] Sep 26, 2005 02:41am
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 That's a pretty generic statement as far as response times. A few other things make a big effect on that too
Mms: the weight of the cone. different materials, thicknesses and things of the such will help response speed.
Bl: Strength of the magnet itself. some speakers list 180 oz or bigger magnets. But if you read the strength of that magnet. different magnetic materials have different properties. this is why neodynium magnets are so small on speakers compared to basic ceramic magnets.
Honestly i'm a big fan of 12's. a good 12 is fast in the right enclosure. and allows a little more low end response.
anyways. good luck on all of your systems

[#] Sep 26, 2005 11:16am
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 Xero. No offense taken on the low end stuff @ best buy. And i agree with you on the lack of knowledge of great many of best buys employees. however i will not agree with the bass first theory unless your head unit is one of those that can't just be replaced simply or without damaging other systems.
There are many advantages to a solid aftermarket head unit over the normal in dash player.
as stated earlier. my only serious problem with factory head units is pre-amp voltage. When you use your line level converters they do not feed you high ammounts of input signal. input signal is VERY important to alot of amplifiers. if you read you will see some need only 2v, but alot seek upwards of 8-12volts input sensitivity.
the problem you will have is, with some of these higher need amplifiers is the owners tend to turn the gains up, the bass boost up, the EQ way past the tuning point for that extra sound... and here is where your problems begin
the gain is "NOT!" a volume control for your speakers (or subs)
and the lower the input signal, the higher the gain for more sound... the more distortion passing through your speakers.
and with subs. that can easly be death. Subbass itself cannot have audible distortion till way past 10-12% (some trained ears can hear much better than that. but that's an industry average) so.
without bashing ANYONES statements
do what you want first. if you do decide to keep factory head unit installed when doing amplifiers. PLEASE invest in a line driver of some sort
this will increase your systems clarity. response, and overall performance greatly. I've added many an alpine type r / kenwood or alpine monoblock to a cars factory radio. They sound awesome... then.. we put in a linedriver on that line out converter.. and all of a sudden. the bass is clean, crisp, almost as if comming from your favorite nakamichi, denon, or mcintosh head unit with a 12v pre-amp installed......
so if you see. where i said head unit first. there are MANY reasons supporting this. I would compare it to a car engine
would you buy a shell of a car. then be limited to what engine you can put in it? or buy an engine and be limited to what car it will fit in??? choose whichever evil you will. none of them are (WRONG)
it's just a matter of what you learned.
anyways. let's just try to keep it friendly around here. no point in bashing eachother.

[#] Sep 26, 2005 11:28am
XpressAudio
  • Window Washer
 ok, first off, if you dont like somebodys opinion, dont bash them saying they are retarted. I personally do not like audiobahn and no i havent used any of their new stuff, so i wont sit here and say my shit is better, because i have no basic for comparison. I PERSONALLY like the oldschool stuff, such as PPI, Orion and Zapco. Thats my opinion, you dont like it, oh well you have your own opinion.

For those who have bashed bestbuy, go right ahead, I could care less. There are nearly 600 stores and im sure some of them have complete idiots working there. Especially the newer stores who do not have the experience that others do. It is however the most stable install job you can find at good pay too. So excuse me if i pay my way through college installing kenwood and pioneer radios all day long.

As for bestbuy's selection, yes it does suck, but thats retail. Your not going to walk into a major retailer and pay cost on anything, the economy would crumble. As far as quality goes, as long as the product does what it needs to do and lasts, whats the big deal? I personally have a kenwood in dash dvd unit in my car and love it, if you want to bash go ahead i dont care.


For you who sit online and trash others for fun, you are the ones who need to get a life and for those of you who are here for fun, advice or willing to share some info with others, keep it up. everyone needs a little help here and there even if you are a master installer. Everyone needs and hand at some point.

[#] Sep 26, 2005 02:38pm
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 True. And the other thing is keeping up with retail demand.
the makers you were talking about (well, Let's not include ppi and orion anymore, since they're owned by dei and taking a mass retail type aproach for money) but. let's go with the zapco's, USamps, MMats pro audio, Digital Designs, Rainbow, Arc audio, hell, you can go down the list of nice equipment... the SOLE reason best buy doesn't, nor circuit, nor tweeters, nor good guys, sell any of those models is they do not have the production to keep up with needs.
i bought my first mmats amp at the end of 1995. they were making around 80 amps per day to supply the us. People win with those products and sales take off. They now can't keep up with their retailers needs.. so they have to start mass producing these amps somehow.
then with mass production comes a drop in quality....
this is why successful lines such as rockford can handle it. They have their mass produced punch lines. then they have their power lines and tEAM rf for those big players who want the next level of quality.
the last thing i'll nag about is buying online. You guys REALLY need to watch what you buy and where from. For instance. customer brought me his 900 dollar ebay AVIC n-2. 200 bucks for install. 5 weeks later the screen got stuck and you could hear the motor turning. but the gears were obviously stripped. customer calls pioneer and pioneer glady tells him they'll fix it...but under their non warranty clause because it was sold on the grey market (non-authorized pioneer dealer) 50$ shipping, 170$ in repair, 70 in parts, 50 in shipping and back... now. with install. he's up to 1300, he brings it back for us to put back in. wow another install charge. and you're up to 1500. then he bitches. all in all he could have had a unit in our store for that price. covered underneath of our warranty and not had aNy headache, troubles or worries. now had something more expensive broken... he'd of been in a shizload of trouble. start troubleshooting an lcd touchscreen, and 300+ dollars looks kinda bad for labor @ pioneer.
all in all, I'd stick to a local shop, their prices aren't as cheap, but they they can definitely offer you customer service. and installation, something no internet retailer has accomplished yet with their "bargain basement" prices.

[#] Sep 26, 2005 04:14pm
XpressAudio
  • Window Washer
 As you just mentioned bazzgazm, big box stores dont carry a lot of brands due to production quantities.. but this doesnt mean that what they do sell is just low end garbage as others seem to think. Even if you buy a pioneer 1700 at a private shop doesnt mean its any better then whats shipped to bestbuy or circuit city, it all comes from the same place.
As for online shopping, yes most mfg's will not warranty your product for free because internet sellers are not 'authorized retailers' as the warranties always explain. There are some of course, but buying stuff on ebay because your too cheap to support a local business then you take your own chance with the equiptment. I agree 100% with what you had said about buying from a dealer and having them warranty the product. Even if its a bestbuy or circuit city, any shop will warranty their work and anything they sold to you (to an extent of course)

[#] Sep 26, 2005 07:29pm
Bazzgazm
  • Oil Changer
 Being that i have talked to higher ups and even company reps. i know what's going on. and that's it.. Alpine built 2 new factories to accomodate best buys ordering. that is the only way best buy would EVER accept them in. and true. it's not "Crap" and most equipment that sounds like crap is because of a bad install job.
the punch series is very strong, kenwood mono amps are VERY VERY good for power/$. Alpine decks are solid. there's some good stuff there... but not what i like. gimme my old canton components, and my mmats sub amps. and my old gz subs...if you guys need anything else let me know in pms.

[#] Sep 26, 2005 10:23pm

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