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Home > Performance Mods > Suspension & Brakes > Q/A : Brake System Upgrade

Q/A : Brake System Upgrade

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Kurisutaira

Reg'd: Aug 04, 2007

Godlike Advisor

Ok so i been looking at upgrading my brake rotors. i wanna get slotted rotors. im not ready for BBK so im just looking at getting a simple upgrade. i just wanted to know a few things:

How do i know if im getting quality rotors? (what do i look for)

Do i need to get different brake pads or wuld i be ok with the ones i use now?

Would having a certain type of brake caliper require me to get a specific rotor?

Would having a certain type of rotor require me to upgrade to a different caliper?

What wuld need to be replaced for the new calipers if i had to upgrade to something bigger/better?


"This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object"
[#] Jul 19, 2008 01:51pm
SquallLHeart

Reg'd: Sep 09, 2004

The Techie

quality rotors won't be cheap, so please don't buy them from somewhere like ebay..

this is your braking system and you need to find a good trusty source for something this important.

if you're gonna switch out rotors, there's not much need to change the pads, though you should check to see how much wear they have. i would change the pads if it were me though. (doing it all at once sorta thing)

no need for different calipers if the rotors you get fit, and vice versa.

newer calipers = other pads.

LED questions? AIM: 'SquallLHeart TN'

LED Swaps and parts available! PM me for details, questions and/or quotes.

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The Few, the Proud... (they never really tell you what they're really "proud" of, eh?)
Below All (USAF - Uncle Sam's Academic Failures)
[#] Jul 19, 2008 02:20pm
Kurisutaira

Reg'd: Aug 04, 2007

Godlike Advisor

SquallLHeart wrote:
if you're gonna switch out rotors, there's not much need to change the pads, though you should check to see how much wear they have. i would change the pads if it were me though. (doing it all at once sorta thing)

what i meant by this is not useing the pads already on the brake caliper. i meant wuld i be ok getting the regular joe blow pads at auto zone or wuld i need to get ones from a higher stand point like summit raceing or what not


"This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object"
[#] Jul 19, 2008 02:33pm
SquallLHeart

Reg'd: Sep 09, 2004

The Techie

i find no point in upgrading brake rotors if you're gonna cheap out on the brake pads..

so i'm gonna have to say change them out for better ones.
i usually read up on brake info and purchase products from stoptech.

LED questions? AIM: 'SquallLHeart TN'

LED Swaps and parts available! PM me for details, questions and/or quotes.

There's Strong, and then there's RETARD Strong.
Decelerate your life.
The Few, the Proud... (they never really tell you what they're really "proud" of, eh?)
Below All (USAF - Uncle Sam's Academic Failures)
[#] Jul 19, 2008 02:36pm
krdshrk

Reg'd: Sep 29, 2007

Godlike Advisor

Kurisutaira wrote:
Ok so i been looking at upgrading my brake rotors. i wanna get slotted rotors. im not ready for BBK so im just looking at getting a simple upgrade. i just wanted to know a few things:How do i know if im getting quality rotors? (what do i look for)

Do i need to get different brake pads or wuld i be ok with the ones i use now?

Would having a certain type of brake caliper require me to get a specific rotor?

Would having a certain type of rotor require me to upgrade to a different caliper?

What wuld need to be replaced for the new calipers if i had to upgrade to something bigger/better?


Go with a good quality rotor. Nothing from eBay, nothing from cheap sellers. I like the Stoptech Slotted. Don't get Cross-Drilled - it weakens the structural integrity of the rotor and will cause it to warp or crack much easier.

As for the brake pads, what are you looking for? OEM ones are made for normal stopping and normal dust. The Axxis Deluxe Plus are OEM replacements with normal stopping and low dust. Axxis Ultimate (What I run) are street/racing performance pads that have high bite and high stopping power, but produce a lot of dust. Hawk HPS are the same way. I would stay away from the Hawk HP+ - they're for track use only and will only operate well at optimal temperatures.

There are no replacement brake calipers at this time for the tC. The only calipers you can get are with a Big Brake Kit, and those are made specifically for their size rotors. Also - the brake pads for BBKs are specifically for the size calipers and they're harder to obtain.

The brake system on the tC is controlled by the computer with the ABS and EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution). Just throwing on a BBK and thinking you'll stop better is wrong. The #1 thing that helps with stopping - Your tires. Good sticky tires will help greatly.

For you - I'd recommend getting the Stoptech Stage II kit. I have it. It's an EXCELLENT kit - OEM replacement slotted rotors, Axxis Ultimate brake pads, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, and Motul RBF 600 (DOT4) brake fluid. Replacing the brake lines means you have to re-bleed them, and that will help with the braking and pedal feel, along with the pads that bite harder. Plus, the DOT4 fluid can hold to higher temperatures (higher boiling point).


Scikotics NJ is sponsored by Lawrence Scion

2006 GReddy Turbocharged Automatic tC
220+ WHP - 14.044 @ 97.02 MPH
[#] Jul 21, 2008 12:26am
CadenceScion

Reg'd: May 27, 2008

Oil Changer

Ok, I am not totally agreeing w/ you as far as cross-drilled rotors. I know first of all a lot of sports car come w/ cross-drilled rotors. For example the Corvette. Why would a car manufacturer like Chevy put crossed drilled rotors on a corvette that costs upwards of $45,000 and have them warp and crack. When in fact a corvette can do speeds in axcess of 190Mph. Plus I know Porches, and other exotic sports come standard w/ cross-drilled rotor. I am sorry to say, but I feel that is one persons opinion, and not totally true. If you are buying cheap rotors, like from ebay, or chinese knock offs, then yes you would be running a risk of warping and cracking the rotors. Also I know that cracking and warping a rotor is caused from constant heat and serious break abuse. I have cross drilled rotors on my 1995 chevy s-10 w/ performance friction carbon metallic pads and I have yet to have any of those probs. I feel rotors whether they are cross drilled or slotted is all ones personal preference. I would rather have a crossed drilled rotor over a slotted because I feel a crossed drilled rotor will perform better under heavy breaking, and desipate heat better, (Hence the holes drilled in them). I also feel a slotted rotor will chew the break pads up and not desipate heat as well. Plus I also know rotors are made of different materials. I also know that ceramic break pads create far less break dust and no squealing. I've ran semi-metallic and ceramic break pads and I so hate semi-metalic pads. They are so dirty and create so much noise and break dust. Ceramics run very quiet, very little if any break dust. I know semi-metallic pads are quite hard in compound and ceramics are softer. Ceramic pads will wear faster than a semi-metallic pad. I also know that Powerstop and PowerSlot makes awesome rotors, which I have used many times and have had no probs w/ either ones. I would rethink ones advice to others when not all of if is true, when it is ones opinions.

[#] Jul 21, 2008 02:45am
TheFantasticG

Reg'd: May 17, 2008

Vehicle Designer

I can vouch for PowerSlot, as I had a set on my turbo'd Tercel. I put those on with some medium price brand of brake pads and there was significant difference in stopping power.

On the tC, I am eyeballing the EBC Slotted/Dimpled rotors for front/rear and grabbing a pair of Axxis Ultimate pads for each rotor. Along with the Ingalls front/rear stainless steel lines.


[#] Jul 21, 2008 05:05am
FrAnkRYzzO

Reg'd: Oct 21, 2005

$upervillain
for Hire

I don't know if you had a a chance to read through this thread: http://clubsciontc.com/fo...17063-Big-Brake-Kits.html It started as a question about BBK's, but went in depth on the advantages/perceptions about drilled and slotted rotors.

IMO, if you want to upgrade your braking system, I'd get a set of blank Brembo OEM replacements and a good set of pads and tires. If you don't mind the dust, Axxis Ultimates stop you hard and fast. Web has EBC Red Stuff pads and has had nothing but positive things to say about them. The Hawk street pads are great too.

...............

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[#] Jul 21, 2008 08:51am
Web

Reg'd: Apr 17, 2006

THE SHADOW

CadenceScion wrote:
Ok, I am not totally agreeing w/ you as far as cross-drilled rotors. I know first of all a lot of sports car come w/ cross-drilled rotors. For example the Corvette. Why would a car manufacturer like Chevy put crossed drilled rotors on a corvette that costs upwards of $45,000 and have them warp and crack. When in fact a corvette can do speeds in axcess of 190Mph. Plus I know Porches, and other exotic sports come standard w/ cross-drilled rotor. I am sorry to say, but I feel that is one persons opinion, and not totally true. If you are buying cheap rotors, like from ebay, or chinese knock offs, then yes you would be running a risk of warping and cracking the rotors. Also I know that cracking and warping a rotor is caused from constant heat and serious break abuse. I have cross drilled rotors on my 1995 chevy s-10 w/ performance friction carbon metallic pads and I have yet to have any of those probs. I feel rotors whether they are cross drilled or slotted is all ones personal preference. I would rather have a crossed drilled rotor over a slotted because I feel a crossed drilled rotor will perform better under heavy breaking, and desipate heat better, (Hence the holes drilled in them). I also feel a slotted rotor will chew the break pads up and not desipate heat as well. Plus I also know rotors are made of different materials. I also know that ceramic break pads create far less break dust and no squealing. I've ran semi-metallic and ceramic break pads and I so hate semi-metalic pads. They are so dirty and create so much noise and break dust. Ceramics run very quiet, very little if any break dust. I know semi-metallic pads are quite hard in compound and ceramics are softer. Ceramic pads will wear faster than a semi-metallic pad. I also know that Powerstop and PowerSlot makes awesome rotors, which I have used many times and have had no probs w/ either ones. I would rethink ones advice to others when not all of if is true, when it is ones opinions.



I wouldn't use the argument of higher end cars coming with cross drilled rotors as a backup for our tCs to be ok with them.
I worked as a service writer for Porsche and yes, they did come with them but they were not steel rotors. They had 2 different types: Standard were a carbon steel ( much harder than the ebay counterpart steel rotors and less resistant to warping...although that did happen sometimes)....and the PCCB setups (Porsche Carbon Ceramic Brakes). The PCCB setup rotors were ceramic steel compounds and were gauranteed to last the lifetime of the vehicle with normal driving. The only changes would be the pads, but the rotors are hard enough to last.

The PCCB setup is a strict racing setup and was a 15-20$ upgrade for most Porsches except for the 997 turbo (2007+ 911 turbo) and the GT3.





Ignorance is bliss....305 fo life!...haha...Poser
[#] Jul 21, 2008 09:13am
dasiknes803

Reg'd: Jul 17, 2007

Chief Mechanic

I suggest a good quality pad before rotors. Unless you are planning on going to the track you wont be utilizing sloted/drilled rotors the way they should be IMO.



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[#] Jul 21, 2008 09:16am
Web

Reg'd: Apr 17, 2006

THE SHADOW

krdshrk wrote:
Kurisutaira wrote:
Ok so i been looking at upgrading my brake rotors. i wanna get slotted rotors. im not ready for BBK so im just looking at getting a simple upgrade. i just wanted to know a few things:How do i know if im getting quality rotors? (what do i look for)

Do i need to get different brake pads or wuld i be ok with the ones i use now?

Would having a certain type of brake caliper require me to get a specific rotor?

Would having a certain type of rotor require me to upgrade to a different caliper?

What wuld need to be replaced for the new calipers if i had to upgrade to something bigger/better?


Go with a good quality rotor. Nothing from eBay, nothing from cheap sellers. I like the Stoptech Slotted. Don't get Cross-Drilled - it weakens the structural integrity of the rotor and will cause it to warp or crack much easier.

As for the brake pads, what are you looking for? OEM ones are made for normal stopping and normal dust. The Axxis Deluxe Plus are OEM replacements with normal stopping and low dust. Axxis Ultimate (What I run) are street/racing performance pads that have high bite and high stopping power, but produce a lot of dust. Hawk HPS are the same way. I would stay away from the Hawk HP+ - they're for track use only and will only operate well at optimal temperatures.

There are no replacement brake calipers at this time for the tC. The only calipers you can get are with a Big Brake Kit, and those are made specifically for their size rotors. Also - the brake pads for BBKs are specifically for the size calipers and they're harder to obtain.

The brake system on the tC is controlled by the computer with the ABS and EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution). Just throwing on a BBK and thinking you'll stop better is wrong. The #1 thing that helps with stopping - Your tires. Good sticky tires will help greatly.

For you - I'd recommend getting the Stoptech Stage II kit. I have it. It's an EXCELLENT kit - OEM replacement slotted rotors, Axxis Ultimate brake pads, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, and Motul RBF 600 (DOT4) brake fluid. Replacing the brake lines means you have to re-bleed them, and that will help with the braking and pedal feel, along with the pads that bite harder. Plus, the DOT4 fluid can hold to higher temperatures (higher boiling point).



I agree not to get fully cross drilled rotors due to structural integrity issues. Just b/c a few people don't have cracked rotors, doesn't mean you won't. I had a set of steel ebay cross drilled and slotted rotors for a while on my tC and when I changed them out, they had small heat cracks all over them. I'd suggest EBC slotted and dimpled rotors like the ones I have. They are very dense rotors and even over about 15K miles of driving with long highway stops, they haven't grooved or worn down much at all.

For pads, it depends on your driving style. If you do a lot of city driving, you want a softer pad that will still bite, but not kill your rotors. I'd suggest either Hawk pads or Axxis like KRD mentioned. For aggressive highway and highspeed driving, I would suggest going with a ceramic compound and using EBC Redstuff pads. I have had no issues with these pads and they are really clean when it comes to dust.

I wouldn't worry about caliper upgrades. Brake fluid upgrades and steel brake lines make the car feel completely new again. Don't buy into the "big brake kit stops much better" deal, like KRD said. Just stick with stock and upgrade to DOT 4 fluid, or steel brake lines...or both.

I'm in pretty much full agreement with KRD about his recommendation, but I have not used Stoptech rotors. My friend's brother has a '99 Prelude with them on and he said they tend to squeal a lot with different pads he uses. Also, b/c they are steel, they will rust when sitting over night pretty quickly. Granted, all rotors will do that but some are more resistant then others due to their metal compounds. I would suggest EBC dimpled and slotted rotors simply b/c I've used them and haven't had any issues at all.



Ignorance is bliss....305 fo life!...haha...Poser
[#] Jul 21, 2008 09:21am
krdshrk

Reg'd: Sep 29, 2007

Godlike Advisor

I've heard that EBC Pads don't wear well and really eat down on rotors.. but that's what I've heard, it's not my experience.

My friend Ed had a tC and he put on the Wilwood BBK in the front, and actually custom fit them to the rears as well, however, he said my car's braking felt much better than his after I put on my StopTech Stage II Kit.


Scikotics NJ is sponsored by Lawrence Scion

2006 GReddy Turbocharged Automatic tC
220+ WHP - 14.044 @ 97.02 MPH
[#] Jul 21, 2008 09:46am
Web

Reg'd: Apr 17, 2006

THE SHADOW

The EBC Greenstuff pads do that very frequently. I had those with the ebay cross drilled setup and they chewed the rotors down quick and squealed a LOT as well. The redstuff pads are dense and the EBC dimpled and slotted rotors are dense as well so they go very well together.


Ignorance is bliss....305 fo life!...haha...Poser
[#] Jul 21, 2008 09:52am
krdshrk

Reg'd: Sep 29, 2007

Godlike Advisor

Where can you get those pads/rotors? I haven't seen them anywhere. How do the RedStuff compare to the Axxis Ultimates? My rotors are starting to wear down a little but it's not bad.


Scikotics NJ is sponsored by Lawrence Scion

2006 GReddy Turbocharged Automatic tC
220+ WHP - 14.044 @ 97.02 MPH
[#] Jul 21, 2008 09:59am
Web

Reg'd: Apr 17, 2006

THE SHADOW

krdshrk wrote:
Where can you get those pads/rotors? I haven't seen them anywhere. How do the RedStuff compare to the Axxis Ultimates? My rotors are starting to wear down a little but it's not bad.


http://www.autopartswareh...brakes%7eperformance.html

I'd say that the Red Stuff and Axxis Ultimates are similar. Both are kevlar/ceramic impregnated and have high heat thresholds. Excellent cold bite from both pads so you really can't go wrong with either. I just know the Red stuff give off almost NO dust at all. My rims stay the same color (although already gunmetal) all the time.


Ignorance is bliss....305 fo life!...haha...Poser
[#] Jul 24, 2008 09:49pm
Kurisutaira

Reg'd: Aug 04, 2007

Godlike Advisor

i just need new rotors i think and i may as well change my pads coz my stopping ability is not wat it used to be. and looking at the rotors i can see some grooves. but i still got a batter end of 1/4" of pad left. i havent had any squeaks yet. just tired of feeling the ABS on certain occasions


"This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object"
[#] Jul 24, 2008 10:05pm
Web

Reg'd: Apr 17, 2006

THE SHADOW

Changing rotors, pads MUST be changed.

Changing pads, rotors SOMETIMES can be saved/resurfaced.

Just change the full set if the rotors are warped.


Ignorance is bliss....305 fo life!...haha...Poser
[#] Jul 24, 2008 10:23pm
krdshrk

Reg'd: Sep 29, 2007

Godlike Advisor

Also remember - most higher performance brakes need to be Bedded in. Bedding in brakes is getting them heated up by repeatedly braking from 60-10 10x in a row - they will start heating up like crazy and smoking but that's how you properly set the brake pads (and rotors) so that they'll work properly.


Scikotics NJ is sponsored by Lawrence Scion

2006 GReddy Turbocharged Automatic tC
220+ WHP - 14.044 @ 97.02 MPH
[#] Jul 24, 2008 11:55pm

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