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Home > Visual / Audio Mods > Interior Styling > Air/Fuel Gauge?

Air/Fuel Gauge?

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powerhouse21 Virginia, US Tech Advisor	I have the glowshift air/fuel gauge and when i took it to get installed they said it wont work and that i HAVE to have a wideband...is this true? Do i really need to buy a wideband gauge in order to get an air/fuel ratio?
[#] Oct 27, 2007 01:15am
nick06tc Virginia, US Scion Guru	Yes you will need a wideband gauage with its own sensor. The sensor on the tC will neot give the proper signal to work with a narrow band gauge.
[#] Oct 27, 2007 09:24am
powerhouse21 Virginia, US Tech Advisor	so the electric gauges that say "full sweep" wont work. Damn those gauges are just soooo expensive
[#] Oct 27, 2007 09:38am
nick06tc Virginia, US Scion Guru	The full sweep are usually narrowband. You will need the more expensive gauges. Expect to pay $300ish for the correct gauge,
[#] Oct 27, 2007 10:09am
scarab23 Huntley Illinois, US Tech Advisor	Well that pretty much killed adding a pod for me, LOL. Thanks for the info. Team Echo SPONSORS Arlington Toyota/Scion Rays Electronics
[#] Oct 27, 2007 12:26pm
Mugetsu Hollywood Florida, US Scion Guru	For nitrous all you really need is a narrowband, you just have to buy the sender unit(aka O2) i have heard of people tapping the gauge into the second O2 on our car as well...it works but for some reason it causes a CEL the narrow band will tell you extremes, if you are running lean or rich, for N2O its just to see whats up with the AFRs this is usually enough A wideband is not something you run around plugged up 24/7 on a daily driver... its an expansive instrument used for tuning and to periodically check the AFRs, its expensive and a constant rich condition(which most F/I cars run) will cause it to fail quickly. wow that was more intense than that one time I forgot how to sit down...
[#] Oct 27, 2007 02:05pm
nick06tc Virginia, US Scion Guru	Mugetsu wrote: For nitrous all you really need is a narrowband, you just have to buy the sender unit(aka O2) i have heard of people tapping the gauge into the second O2 on our car as well...it works but for some reason it causes a CEL the narrow band will tell you extremes, if you are running lean or rich, for N2O its just to see whats up with the AFRs this is usually enough A wideband is not something you run around plugged up 24/7 on a daily driver... its an expansive instrument used for tuning and to periodically check the AFRs, its expensive and a constant rich condition(which most F/I cars run) will cause it to fail quickly. Where did you hear this from ?this is not true. almost anyone running a turbo setup will run a a/f ration gauge all the time. its not something you turn on and off when you want it. Its a guage just like anything else. And EXTREMELY important on a turbo setup to monitor your a/f ratio when driving around town. The aem guage is a wideband with gauge that is just like having anEGT, BOOST, oil or whatever. its not for just tuning. All a narrowband ON OUR CAR will do is show you some flashy neat lights and show EXTREME conditions. By the time it shows you what is going on, its way to late. On most cars you can tap the O2 sensor. On the tC this is not the case. Here is what you need: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/aemgauge.htm
[#] Oct 27, 2007 03:05pm
08Crimson Bloomington Indiana, US Chief Mechanic	One thing you can do is have an exhaust shop weld a new O2 bung anywhere in you piping and install any standard O2 sensor. You just have to give it a power source and then use the signal wire form the gauge. I had the rear O2 sensors on my truck removed but later on I wanted to install a gauge and that all I had to do. It is true though that if you use a narrowband it won't do much good other then making a nice light show at night.
[#] Oct 27, 2007 05:14pm
carcandy Detroit Michigan, US Silver Sponsor	I don't see a point of monitoring narrow band? By the time it refreshes the engine can go boom. If you not tunning you car don't waist money on wideband gauge.
[#] Oct 27, 2007 07:32pm
Mugetsu Hollywood Florida, US Scion Guru	nick06tc wrote: Mugetsu wrote: For nitrous all you really need is a narrowband, you just have to buy the sender unit(aka O2) i have heard of people tapping the gauge into the second O2 on our car as well...it works but for some reason it causes a CEL the narrow band will tell you extremes, if you are running lean or rich, for N2O its just to see whats up with the AFRs this is usually enough A wideband is not something you run around plugged up 24/7 on a daily driver... its an expansive instrument used for tuning and to periodically check the AFRs, its expensive and a constant rich condition(which most F/I cars run) will cause it to fail quickly. Where did you hear this from ?this is not true. almost anyone running a turbo setup will run a a/f ration gauge all the time. its not something you turn on and off when you want it. Its a guage just like anything else. And EXTREMELY important on a turbo setup to monitor your a/f ratio when driving around town. The aem guage is a wideband with gauge that is just like having anEGT, BOOST, oil or whatever. its not for just tuning. All a narrowband ON OUR CAR will do is show you some flashy neat lights and show EXTREME conditions. By the time it shows you what is going on, its way to late. On most cars you can tap the O2 sensor. On the tC this is not the case. Here is what you need: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/aemgauge.htm Jeez man do you read your own stuff...your just reciting forum BS. A light show huh? yeah cute i've heard that one before. i guess tuning was invented along with AEM's wideband huh? i guess people haven't been tuning/boosting/running N2O tuning of narrowbands since way before "joe tuner"could afford a wideband. Thats what the EMS does it maintains the AFRs, a tune isnt something that dissipates or gets overridden. At least not a good tune... you say "everyone thats turbo runs a wideband" were did you hear this from SL? most those guys run boost for what? a year "maybe" 2 then you see them posting it for sale on the forums. i personally know of a turbo sentra and a SR20 that have been running boost going on 5 years and they don't run a wideband...they use one to tune and to monitor when they turn up the boost considerably. but mostly they run a narrowband just to make sure everything stays as it should. narrow bands work they have been used by muscle car performance for a hell of a long time they are not just for show. and guess what? our car has two O2 sensors and i know someone who tapped the "second" one to a narrowband gauge and it worked fine...i wonder why? maybe because its a narrowband O2? also hey your TRD S/C kit didn't come with an "EXTREMELY" important wideband gauge did it? nor did it come with a boost/oil one either. Because the trd reflash the "TUNE" takes care of it. Next your going to tell me its cause it a factory supercharged engine... i'm not saying a wideband is not necessary its just not "EXTREMELY" important enough to shell out 300$ + just for running a 50 shot of N2O. i know you have been around this forum and SL for a while which is why i guess you spout stereotypical BS with such authority. not everything is as cut and clear as whats written on forums... wow that was more intense than that one time I forgot how to sit down...
[#] Oct 27, 2007 07:32pm
nick06tc Virginia, US Scion Guru	Mugetsu wrote: nick06tc wrote: Mugetsu wrote: For nitrous all you really need is a narrowband, you just have to buy the sender unit(aka O2) i have heard of people tapping the gauge into the second O2 on our car as well...it works but for some reason it causes a CEL the narrow band will tell you extremes, if you are running lean or rich, for N2O its just to see whats up with the AFRs this is usually enough A wideband is not something you run around plugged up 24/7 on a daily driver... its an expansive instrument used for tuning and to periodically check the AFRs, its expensive and a constant rich condition(which most F/I cars run) will cause it to fail quickly. Where did you hear this from ?this is not true. almost anyone running a turbo setup will run a a/f ration gauge all the time. its not something you turn on and off when you want it. Its a guage just like anything else. And EXTREMELY important on a turbo setup to monitor your a/f ratio when driving around town. The aem guage is a wideband with gauge that is just like having anEGT, BOOST, oil or whatever. its not for just tuning. All a narrowband ON OUR CAR will do is show you some flashy neat lights and show EXTREME conditions. By the time it shows you what is going on, its way to late. On most cars you can tap the O2 sensor. On the tC this is not the case. Here is what you need: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/aemgauge.htm Jeez man do you read your own stuff...your just reciting forum BS. A light show huh? yeah cute i've heard that one before. i guess tuning was invented along with AEM's wideband huh? i guess people haven't been tuning/boosting/running N2O tuning of narrowbands since way before "joe tuner"could afford a wideband. Thats what the EMS does it maintains the AFRs, a tune isnt something that dissipates or gets overridden. At least not a good tune... you say "everyone thats turbo runs a wideband" were did you hear this from SL? most those guys run boost for what? a year "maybe" 2 then you see them posting it for sale on the forums. i personally know of a turbo sentra and a SR20 that have been running boost going on 5 years and they don't run a wideband...they use one to tune and to monitor when they turn up the boost considerably. but mostly they run a narrowband just to make sure everything stays as it should. narrow bands work they have been used by muscle car performance for a hell of a long time they are not just for show. and guess what? our car has two O2 sensors and i know someone who tapped the "second" one to a narrowband gauge and it worked fine...i wonder why? maybe because its a narrowband O2? also hey your TRD S/C kit didn't come with an "EXTREMELY" important wideband gauge did it? nor did it come with a boost/oil one either. Because the trd reflash the "TUNE" takes care of it. Next your going to tell me its cause it a factory supercharged engine... i'm not saying a wideband is not necessary its just not "EXTREMELY" important enough to shell out 300$ + just for running a 50 shot of N2O. i know you have been around this forum and SL for a while which is why i guess you spout stereotypical BS with such authority. not everything is as cut and clear as whats written on forums... Its amazing how you quote me, yet leave out important words. HMM, I never said everyone. so how about you go back and actually qoute EXACTLY what I said. And read again. I said a TURBO. NO WHERE DID I BRING A SUPERCHARGER INTO IT. I know our a/f ratios are good and will never change. That could be the reason i didnt mention a supercharged tC. Again read what I said, dont input what you think i said to make you correct. READ AGAIN, I said a narrow band will she you the extreme ends, giving you a nice light show, while telling you NOTHING, but if you are rich or lean, NOW tell me what the numbers are? You cant because narrowband cant do it. You need to talk about our cars, not other cars you once saw and know of.
[#] Oct 27, 2007 07:48pm
nick06tc Virginia, US Scion Guru	And I know you are going to say, but a piggy back tune is a tune just like the supercharger reflash it wont change. WRONG. tCs running piggyback setups have a tendency to be overridden by the factory ECU. This is the reason you hear of everyone having to disconnect the battery to reset the ECU every few weeks. This is why a wideban is neccesary, you can monitor the A/F numbers and catch it before it gets to lean/rich conditions. A narrowband, you will only know once it is already to late. Oh and please explain why a wideband is only used for tuning and not for daily use!
[#] Oct 27, 2007 07:50pm
Mugetsu Hollywood Florida, US Scion Guru	nick06tc wrote: And I know you are going to say, but a piggy back tune is a tune just like the supercharger reflash it wont change. WRONG. tCs running piggyback setups have a tendency to be overridden by the factory ECU. This is the reason you hear of everyone having to disconnect the battery to reset the ECU every few weeks. This is why a wideban is neccesary, you can monitor the A/F numbers and catch it before it gets to lean/rich conditions. A narrowband, you will only know once it is already to late. Oh and please explain why a wideband is only used for tuning and not for daily use! Jesus Christ man there you go again, useless out dated information...that whole "ECU will over ride/disconnect batt BS" has been solved along time ago ITS CALLED TUNING OFF A "BOOST MAP SENSOR" try reading up and catching up instead of just reciting bullshit... and that whole "narrowband will tell you once its too late..."LOL that pretty much proves my point about everything that you say... thats it i'm done, from now on i'll respect you as a forum member but as far as taking anything you say performance wise seriously...NO... oh and super chargers and turbos are like apples and oranges huh? pssst FIY...A wideband sender is expensive, when you tune its exposed to very rich conditions on top of that most bolt on turbos are ran a tad rich in case of boost spikes. a wideband sender won't last you 4 to 5 years under these conditions. I didn't say it wasn't necessary.i said there is no need to have it on the vehicle 24/7 IF you have a properly TUNED EMS!(you should take your own advise on reading "EXACTLY" what is written instead of trying to make your self correct by misquoting) wow that was more intense than that one time I forgot how to sit down...
[#] Oct 27, 2007 08:33pm
nick06tc Virginia, US Scion Guru	I am done as well. I stated my side and you come back with attacks swearing and saying I dont know anything. Type what you believe to be the truth and let the OP decide, leave the personal attacks out of it.
[#] Oct 27, 2007 08:53pm
Mugetsu Hollywood Florida, US Scion Guru	Well i'm sorry, but if what your saying is either wrong/outdated/or just a stereotyped ignorant remark(like what you said about narrow band O2s) then its just that BS... I can't see were i "personally" attacked you in any way. i defend my knowledge with common sense(based of mine or others i know experiences)facts you can look up and confirm for your self. not from hearsay. I'm sorry if i seem a little harsh, but its easy to just say no no no, wrong wrong wrong. and look at things in black and white. wow that was more intense than that one time I forgot how to sit down...
[#] Oct 27, 2007 09:33pm
Aciidsneaker Marshfield Wisconsin, US	This is not a pissing contest (pardon the language) to see who is better please refrain from arguing on this thread and get back onto the topic and assist the original user. If you feel you must continue to argue then I will lock this post, Keep it in a private message. Scion Wiki ~~ Donate for the cause, make this site better!!
[#] Oct 27, 2007 10:59pm
powerhouse21 Virginia, US Tech Advisor	where can i get the extra 02 sensor for the gauge?
[#] Oct 29, 2007 03:42pm
08Crimson Bloomington Indiana, US Chief Mechanic	powerhouse21 wrote: where can i get the extra 02 sensor for the gauge? ANY auto parts store; autozone, pepboys, ect... You could ask for a three wire O2 sensor and see if they can find one for you.
[#] Oct 29, 2007 03:45pm
powerhouse21 Virginia, US Tech Advisor	ok cool. I also have a water temp and oil pressure gauge and they said i needed an attachment for that. I have the sender unit from glowshift but i need some type of sandwhich adapter?
[#] Oct 29, 2007 04:57pm
08Crimson Bloomington Indiana, US Chief Mechanic	Not sure on the oil pressure and water temp gauge. Are they both electric? One way for the oil pressure gauge is to buy an oil filter spacer and put the electronic sender in it; either drill and tap the spacer or if its already got a hole drilled and tapped just get the right fittings. Another possibility is find the stock OPS, remove it, and use a T fitting so you can reinstall the stock OPS and the aftermarket sender. The second option may give a CEL still even after reinstalling the stock OPS depending on how sensitive it is.
[#] Oct 29, 2007 06:10pm
powerhouse21 Virginia, US Tech Advisor	alright thanks for the suggestions. Im gonna take it to ptuning here in VA if any of you guys have heard of them. They should be able to take care of me.
[#] Oct 29, 2007 10:52pm
nick06tc Virginia, US Scion Guru	ptunning does good work. Ask them about the gauges.
[#] Oct 30, 2007 08:21am
L3THAL Mineral Point Wisconsin, US Detailer	Hey powerhouse, did you get the sandwich plate for the oil pressure gauge? If not, you will need one to screw the oil pressure sender unit into. If you didn't personally mention it, then they probably didn't send you one. And by the way, glowshift is working on a wide band A/F gauge. It should be done soon. I am a factory direct dealer with them, so I have been checking on it. [url=http://www.frontlineperf.com/ ]
[#] Oct 30, 2007 10:29pm
java09 Honolulu Hawaii, US Godlike Advisor	a narrowband will be to late to tell you "something is wrong" you need a wide band with its own sensor. you need to be able to monitor a/f ratios at all time just the same as having a boost gauge or oil pressure gauge or exhaust gas temp.. constant monitoring is needed for cars that are "boosted" not bought "boosted.." simplying for the fact that those parts are foriegn to the car and ecu. you can never boost a tC get it tuned and then say "im done!" you will run into problems and you will tune again and again.. its just how it is. this is what i have learned over the years.. 2008 Turbo Scion tCizzle POWERED BY TURBOTOYOTAS! 310WHP, 272WTQ more to come_..
[#] Oct 30, 2007 10:46pm
Mugetsu Hollywood Florida, US Scion Guru	java09 wrote: a narrowband will be to late to tell you "something is wrong" you need a wide band with its own sensor. you need to be able to monitor a/f ratios at all time just the same as having a boost gauge or oil pressure gauge or exhaust gas temp.. constant monitoring is needed for cars that are "boosted" not bought "boosted.." simplying for the fact that those parts are foriegn to the car and ecu. you can never boost a tC get it tuned and then say "im done!" you will run into problems and you will tune again and again.. its just how it is. this is what i have learned over the years.. You say "over the years..." yet your TC is an 08...i take it you have had other non factory turbo cars.(as in not a TC) its true you don't tune it and forget it, But a good tune doesn't dissipate or erase and now that we have figured out how to tune through an external MAP sensor on the TC, the tune getting overidden is not an issue. Seasonal tunes, elevation,etc...are a different matter. I guess in this day and age that a wideband sender is under 300$ its normal to run one 24/7 BUT its not "extremely important do or die" as some would lead you to believe there are kits (treadstone/ZPI stage 0) that have proven to be capable of taking full care of AFR's to the point were gauges are optional(boost gauge is always good) my pet peeve is this "narrowbands will tell you too late" BS everyone keeps trying to push, this was started by vendors and shop owners trying to up sell customers. a quality narrowband sender will react fast enough to give plenty of warning to "understandable" rich/lean conditions. this whole little "nothing but a pretty light show" BS people recite is just based off the fact that at idle the narrowband gauge will oscillate bouncing from rich to lean, BUT as soon as you step on the throttle the gauge jumps to either STOICH/RICH/LEAN which ever the condition might be. Old muscle car tuners would tune carburetter V8's with narrowband O2s and those engines are even more prone to catastrophic failure do to detonation. Modern cars like ours are equipped with knock sensors and the ability to adjust timing. sure if you lean out horribly a narrow band won't help much BUT at that point you probably did some thing stupid to begin with... I guess you could say narrowbands can be used by people who know what they are doing, while widebands are for bone head ricers that need to have their hand held...J/K wow that was more intense than that one time I forgot how to sit down...
[#] Nov 01, 2007 02:06am

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